New to programming

[ArtTrance]

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[NoteMe]

Make a calculator, or a word prosessors or somthing. That is great for a start.

[LabtroRob]

If at all possible, and if you don't have good reason not to, start with VB.Net instead of VB6.

[maurices5000]

I agree with LabtroRob, start with VB.Net.

Here is a basic project that i've learned a lot with. I did it with VB6. The Sams vb6 in 21 days book as a lot of useful tools. It shows how to use Dialog boxes, print object, etc. I use it the most for vb6 projects until i move on to .net for good.

This is a basic description of a project i worked on. it will help you get your feet wet then you can move on to something else.

Create a test. For starters you can hard code the answers if you want. make the test print out results or save info to disk. this is a very basic program, but since you have very limited experience it may help you to get used to what you have already learned. Use picture boxes etc for design purposes. Then afterwards use a database to store these questions if you like or do it the first time. I just don't want to give you too much at one time. the Print object is nick-picky enough. I could never get good margins so i created a function to deal with that.

If you are still in school. www.academicsuperstore.com can help you get .Net at a cheaper price.

If you start with .NET i would suggest you get the book An Introduction to Object-Oriented Programming with VB.NET. It will teach you OOP and some UML. So if you build this testing app in VB6, that may help you get your feet wet with programming if your programming experience is limited. With .NET it will take longer to get the app done if you do it right. So for faster results go do an app or 2 in vb6 until you are able to develop your skills in .NET. but the warning is that vb6 is dying and maybe dying quickly.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Pick a project that interests you, then write it. If you are biting off more than you can chew to begin with, just break it down into smaller pieces. If you want to tackle something simple, then you are already there. If you want to tackle something that is just beyond your reach, then why not make it something of interest to you?

[techgnome]

We've got some tutorials on DeveloperKB.com for VB, mostly dealing with ADO and databases though.

TG

[Memnoch1207]

Do not become a programmer, contrary to popular belief we are not highly paid or highly skilled individuals.

We are under paid and exploited.
We are forced to share 6x6 cubicles with 10 and sometimes 20 other programmers.
We are beaten on an hourly basis if out code quota isn't met.
We are only allowed outdoors at night.
We are fed once a day, usually stale bread and stagnant water.
Our families are threatened with abuse if out programs have bugs in them.

It's a horrible life...Therefore I must strongly suggest that you pursue a high profile, rewarding career as a Retail Sales Associate.

[techgnome]

Down, down Memnoch1207.... if Art wants to learn VB, let him learn VB6, then he can maintain all that crappy VB6 code we've all written over the years whilst we get paid to write new and improved crapy code in .NET (or Delphi if your tastes prefer.)

TG

[Oblivion02]

Are Delphi and .NET better than VB6? and if so... what are the differences? I just got VB6 a couple of days ago and would like to know

[Memnoch1207]

The difference between .NET and VB6 is about the same as the difference between night and day.

[Oblivion02]

Which is night and which is day?

[techgnome]

Originally posted by Oblivion02
Which is night and which is day?

While it doesn't really matter, that is a matter of opinion. I think VB6 is day, since it's light, and VB.NET is night since it's dark and mysteriouse.

What he meant was that VB6 and VB.NET are really different from each other. It's not like it was moving from VB4 to VB6, a simple upgrade of the language.... VB.NET is a new animal. Personaly I like .NET and can't wait to start using it more.

TG

[Oblivion02]

In any case, should a new VB6 user<Me> switch to .Net before i get too comfy with VB or should i get the hang of VB then move to .Net?

[techgnome]

Let me put it to you this way:
What are you plans? Is this just for goofing with? Or is it to pursure a career?
What is it that you want to do with what you learn? Do you want to be on the bleeding edge, or are you comfortable being off of it slightly?

TG

[Oblivion02]

Well... im 14 but yea i would like a career in computers... its what i like... And its not just for goofing of, i try to make the best apps i can and i take it seriously...

[NoteMe]

Originally posted by Oblivion02
Well... im 14 but yea i would like a career in computers... its what i like... And its not just for goofing of, i try to make the best apps i can and i take it seriously...

Then go for .NET...doesn't matter that much anyway. Because in most jobs you need more then one language anyway. And if you take CS or something you probably have to learn Java and C/C++. And when you know a couple of languages, it is much easier to move to an other one. The main thing is that you know how things work, and the logic of a program.

ØØ

[Oblivion02]

well... now to try and see if i find a friend of mine with VB .Net who can send me a copy through mail or sumthing :P

[Oblivion02]

Is the .Net Syntax similar to VB6? cuz i am beginning to get comfortable with Vb6... Is it similar or like REALLY diff...

[NoteMe]

Originally posted by Oblivion02
Is the .Net Syntax similar to VB6? cuz i am beginning to get comfortable with Vb6... Is it similar or like REALLY diff...

It's a bit diffrent...looks like the same language with first glance...but they are really not the same thing....

[Oblivion02]

Ok... thanks... SO now to find a copy of .Net

[Jmacp]

Certianly i notice more jobs advertised for .NET than for VB, this is from browsing through about 4 jobs sites fairly often.

[maurices5000]

You can get a cheap version of Visual Studio .NET PROFESSIONAL at www.academicsuperstore.com if you are still in school. that is a 1,000 dollar package for just a 100 bucks or so. It is also better than having to call Microsoft explaining to them why you have to reinstall this software so much.

Also by having this full version of studio, you can branch out and learn a few other languages as well.]

I would suggest you learn VB.NET (costs about 99.00 by itself for standard edition). You will be forced to learn OO which will be more important by the time you get ready to get a job. Fortunately by then you will already have say 6 yrs or more experience. OO concepts won't be as hard. This could thus prove to be a good time investment for you. So learn OO and learn UML there is a UML cert taht you can get also at www.omg.com. but this may not be practical for now. But OO is. OO has been around for some time and will probably be here for good until programing transforms itself again.

Take care. i hope this is helpful.

[Memnoch1207]

Personally, I think you would be better rewarded with an exciting career in the Retail Industry...but then again nobody listens to me!

[techgnome]

I'm sorry Memnoch1207, did you say something?



TG

[Shaggy Hiker]

Memnoch is a new kind of recruiter. Perhaps a decruiter.

You can write .NET without anything except Notepad....of course, you could also poke hot needles under your fingernails, and I'm not sure which would be more fun. Microsoft has made the .NET compiler a free download. What you are paying for is the IDE. Therefore, you could use VB6 to write a code editor, and get the free compiler from MS, and switch to .NET.

Presto, instant placebo.

[Memnoch1207]

I am the voice of reason.
I am the industries conscience.

Do not enter the IT industry.
It is already saturated with overskilled, underpaid minions, doing the work of the great "Your Company's Name Here" satan!

Entering into the IT industry condemns you to a life of servitude in the bowels of programming hell.

You must run, run away from the code. Run, run as quickly as possible to your nearest retailer and ask them.....nay beg them for an application of employment.

Run, run away from this programming delusion you have, that has masked its evil face behind a bug-free user interface!

It will lure you in...trap you...condemn you....run to the light...run to the Blue Light.....


Run to the Blue Light Special at your nearest K-Mart and enjoy a lifelong rewarding career in Retail!

[techgnome]

dang, there it goes again..... it's almost like a voice lost in the winds....

TG

[Shaggy Hiker]

Now we know why Memnoch isn't in retail

[hellswraith]

Memnoch1207 has a point. When you pick a tech career, your "whole" life gets dedicated to it if you want to be good. I read programming books for fun on my off time. I write my own software in my off time. My wife and kids hate it, they hate my computer. I look over at my neighbors who are not in IT, and their work RARELY comes home with them. They are out boating, washing their cars, and enjoying the sun. I am stuck inside learning Web Services for my next MCSD exam. Then after that, I have some other topics I need to brush up on for my next project that is coming up.

I will never be free. When I was in the Air Force, I would do my work then come home and do whatever I wanted. I could play games, etc. Now I can't.

So I agree with Memnoch1207. Choose another career that lets you go home after work and do your own thing.

[CORONA BEER]

Originally posted by Oblivion02
Are Delphi and .NET better than VB6?

Delphi is better than VB6 yes.
after learning Delphi, VB seemes generic to me, i am not bashing vb thats my opinion.

[Memnoch1207]

hahahaha!!!! I escaped...I escaped...oh ****....no I didn't!

[Shaggy Hiker]

You will never be free, but do you want to be? Any job can be made 9-5 if you want to. You just have to cut down on the amount you agree to do. Of course, that might alter what job you can hold, but that's life. We don't have the freedom to be paid whatever we choose for the amount of work we choose to do. If we did, I sure wouldn't be here!

If you enjoy it, then do it.

[Memnoch1207]

You get to do all of the in the Retail Industry!

Retail is where it's at!!!

[maurices5000]

guys this has been one of my concerns. Right now i'm a one man department and a newbie on top of that.

I do all the programming with no one to help. this is good for learning but i'm tired of having to slave to figure out a problem when if someone else more experienced worked along with me I think things would be smoother.

My hope is that if i could get into a bigger company the work load wouldn't so heavy. I know at least 2 or 3 people in the IT field that seem to do little to no study after work. I was hoping that things would lighten up for me some. My hope is to get a good knowledge of the language, work withing that level of knowledge, and take a break for a few weeks every now and then without fearing getting behind.

guess it depends on what company you work for? I think my biggest problem is not getting enough pratice and not having anyone help me along. I really don't mind the study as lone as i can have a break or two. right now i used my vacations to get ahead because idon't ahve enough time to learn what i need on the job. If i can get a break or two every once in awhile where i don't have to study at home and i can actually go somewhere without worrying for a good decent vacation, i think i will be satisfied. I don't have family, but i have religious responsibilities.

[Memnoch1207]

I was in the same boat you are now.
I worked for a small company and did all of the programming myself. There wasn't anyone else to assist me or answer questions I may have had.
But in the long run you will appreciate this, because it makes you more resourceful.

I work for a much larger company now (trust me the workload doesn't lighten, it gets heavier).
I see alot of my co-workers running off to ask more experienced developers questions, because they just haven't figured out how to solve problems themselves.

Being resourceful is a benefit, you have the ability to solve your own problems and learn from your mistakes. Instead of running off to someone else everytime something goes wrong or you can't figure something out.

Trust me, it's difficult now, but in a year or two, you will be a better programmer for it.

I have worked for my current company for eight months, but I get people (much more experienced than myself) asking me questions on how to do things, because they were never in a situation where they were forced to be self-reliant. They always had someone to run to, to answer their questions.

[szlamany]

Originally posted by Memnoch1207
I was in the same boat you are now.
I worked for a small company and did all of the programming myself. There wasn't anyone else to assist me or answer questions I may have had.
But in the long run you will appreciate this, because it makes you more resourceful.

I work for a much larger company now (trust me the workload doesn't lighten, it gets heavier).
I see alot of my co-workers running off to ask more experienced developers questions, because they just haven't figured out how to solve problems themselves.

Being resourceful is a benefit, you have the ability to solve your own problems and learn from your mistakes. Instead of running off to someone else everytime something goes wrong or you can't figure something out.

Trust me, it's difficult now, but in a year or two, you will be a better programmer for it.

I have worked for my current company for eight months, but I get people (much more experienced than myself) asking me questions on how to do things, because they were never in a situation where they were forced to be self-reliant. They always had someone to run to, to answer their questions.

That was almost sentimental - I'm overwhelmed

Somehow with the picture you have along side your name, I can't imagine a co-worker asking for help

[Memnoch1207]

That's just my inner demon!
I spend alot of my day just biting my tongue, in a desperate attempt to prevent him from coming out and unleashing his wraith.

[szlamany]

But seriously...

I started in programming over 25 years ago - developing school administration software (report cards, scheduling, attendance).

I started in HS - missed 45 days of my senior year traveling through the middle of the US installing software and training users.

My boss was by mentor - but he was evil - something that took 5 or 6 years to truly come out.

When the big buys decided to sell the company, all us "original stock" programmers got screwed. The 4 owners got millions - we got "assimilated into the new payroll cycle" and lost a weeks pay! The new company actually "loaned" us the weeks pay and took it out of future checks - talk about moral sinking.

My scheduling algorithm was installed from Anchorage to San Jose to Arizona, Calgary, all of Ontario.

After two years with the "new parent" company they closed our shop and asked us to move to another state. That's when I went on my own (actually with a partner) and decided I would never give proprietary rights to my code to some lizard who only wants to cash out.

Now, 26 years latter I've got 1000+ square feet of office space and hire high school kids to program with me. They appreciate that I give them decades of meaningful "business application" experience and I appreciate that they bring "new language" skills to a old dog like me.

I truly love my job - but my laptop comes with me on most vacations. The office phone actually rings at the house, because schools open so early, that I can't miss a call.

[maurices5000]

thanks guys for your posts.

Guys my idea of being self-reliant is reading books, practicing and if i have any problems coming to this forum. Is there any thing else i should add to my tool belt? Any suggestions? How do you find or get answers to sticky questions. Thanks guys.

I feel tha being able to get what you need on your own is very valuable. I dont have anything against asking for help, but from experience i'm learning that there is nothing better than to be able to get the answers you need on your own. It is just good being independent if necessary!

The forums were a great discovery for me!